@baconhound said: Bobrov - 1950s - Doesn't negate the fact that it disproves your argument. Zezel - 8 seconds in professional soccer - Doesn't negate the fact that it disproves your argument. Bahrs - kickers, not football players - Did you play professional football? I assume you didn't, which means they are, at least, better "football players" than you. Arena - lacrosee, what's next curling? - Ethnocentricism at it's best, ladies and gentlemen. Lacrosse is a tougher sport than football any day of the week. There's just no interest in it, because most dumb Americans can't understand it. Donelli - 1940s - Doesn't negate the fact that it disproves your argument. Twellman - didn't play professional baseball - Was offered a professional baseball contract. If you're arguing about guys who were drafted and never player, Twellman's just as legitimate of an example. If you'd like to discount your examples by removing Twellman from the argument, that's fine with me. Hitting a baseball is very athletic as is throwing it, catching it and running after it. Stealing bases is very athletic as is playing defense, I'd put Mike Trout and Giancarlo Stanton up against any athlete in terms of strength, agility and speed. If we're picking and choosing what aspects to compare, I'd put any professional soccer player up with any professional football player in terms of leg strength, endurance and juggling. If endurance was such a key component of overall athleticism we'd be talking about triathletes and marathon runners as being top dogs. It's one component, just as brute strength is. And I firmly believe that the upper-echelon of triathletes and marathon runners are much more athletic than most baseball players. Concerning Ward and Winfield, my original point stated playing professional or collegiate sports at a high level. I'd consider a Heisman Trophy a greater accomplishment as being an awesome youth soccer player. I'd consider playing two sports professionally a greater accomplishment than winning a Heisman trophy winner - that's why I named people who did do that. But if winning a Heisman is your end-all be-all for athleticism, I'm guessing you're crazy excited for Manziel, then. Good to know.